The cookie-cutter approach of mainstream education doesn't always hit the mark and that some students need tailored support to address their unique learning needs. Today, we have a very special guest on the show, Mike Nicholson, whose journey in education has been nothing short of remarkable. After spending more than two and a half decades in the field of education, Mike came to a profound realization – that traditional schooling doesn't suit everyone. During his extensive career, he encountered numerous students who unfairly blamed themselves for their academic struggles, not realizing that the system itself played a significant role in their challenges. In his quest to make a difference, Mike transitioned into the role of a WHolistic NeuroGrowth Learning Success Coach. As the founder of the Fairmount Coaching practice, he brings together his rich background as an English teacher and his time as a school administrator. This unique blend allows him to offer students a powerful mix of practical experience and tried-and-true scientific methods. Mike's focuses on boosting students’ confidence and helping them become more independent learners. Tune in and learn more about his approach!

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Unlocking Learning Success With Coach Mike Nicholson

I have a special guest on our show, Mike Nicholson. After spending more than a few decades in the field of education, Mike came to a profound realization that traditional schooling doesn't suit everyone. During his extensive career, he encountered numerous students who unfairly blamed themselves for their academic struggles, not realizing the system itself played a significant role in their challenges.

In his quest to make a difference, Mike transitioned into the role of a holistic neuro-growth learning success coach. As the Founder of the Fairmount Coaching Practice, he brings together his rich background as an English teacher and his time as a school administrator. This unique blend allows him to offer students a powerful mix of practical experience and tried and true scientific methods.

Mike's approach is all about boosting not only confidence but also helping students become more independent learners. It's about recognizing that the cookie-cutter approach of mainstream education doesn't always hit the mark and that some students need tailored support to address their unique learning needs. Thank you for joining me, Mike. It's a pleasure to have you.

It’s my pleasure. I always liked talking to you, Kohila.

Let's go back to the time you were in the classroom, and you were a teacher and an administrator. You have a unique angle to this whole story and journey. Tell me what it was like being a teacher and an admin.

Being a teacher was fun. I taught English and TV and film production. I enjoyed the TV and film production because it was different from teaching in a regular classroom. There weren't standards like testing that were limiting me. I found my groove in teaching that. What I was teaching was the ability to communicate through a different medium. It was getting to students in a way that nobody else was. I was proud of the fact that I always gave students an opportunity to think differently and critically. I loved that I moved into administration. It was a shift for me, not just professionally, but in my life because of how much I got to see young people.

Did your relationship shift when you got to that?

I've been retired now. I've also learned that you also have to grieve an old career. That was new to me. There was a lot of that. I've been reflecting so much, and the only words I can say to explain it is my proximity to pain. I'm not saying all I'm thinking about is how much pain I experienced because I had wonderful successes and experiences with young people.

Now that I'm out and working as a learning success coach, and I'm also taking care of a child, I'm constantly thinking about the proximity to pain that I had of these young people who were in my office because I was the administrator. If they did something wrong, they came to me. There was always a reason. When I say it shifted, my whole perspective shifted on learning and trauma's impact on it. Now that I'm out, my reflection is about that trauma that I experienced, that proximity to pain, and how did that impact me. How can I now try to still serve those young people who have that pain?

What I was limited by was the many different conflicting things going on in the school. If I were in charge of disciplining a student, which I hate to even call disciplinarian, I would have students in there, talk to the parents, and connect with them. They would know that I heard them. With this student, we got a lot of trouble, but they were thanking me. I felt that what that child was going through, but the second they left my door, I couldn't do anything for them because there was too much going on that I had to deal with. Is there a fight? Is there a fire drill? Is there this or there that?

That's why I'm writing little articles and content on my website. My first thing is outside the office door because I want to stick with that young person. Instead of getting them out and running on the next, I want to help them heal. I want to get all of that out of their mind so they can learn. That's the hardest part.

You couldn't continue the journey that was started inside your room? It was outside that door that changed that whole thing.

All those conflicting things are pulling the students. Normally, what I would say is, “Let me take you to your guidance counselor or the school psychologist. I would follow up, but students still had to sit in five different cinder block walled classrooms and try to succeed, but nothing changed. That person still had the trauma, and it's no one's fault. It's institutional. That's the thing that drives me now. It's what drove me to you and what you do. That was a big shift for me. It's what I refer to as my shift, and I started seeing it differently. I want to empower young people. It's all I want to do.

You can walk that journey with them. It continues. They'll remember you for the rest of their life. It's beautiful. Our relationship with our students is on a journey of transformation that we can create.

We learned from them as much, if not more, than they learned from us. That was my experience with it.

We learn from our students as much as they learn from us, if not more so.

They taught me everything I have now, including this whole learning success coaching model. They were telling me what they needed. They are the teachers, but you have to listen from their perspective. You have to see things. We teach from this level down. I never wanted to teach like that. I wanted to go below them because I'd never wanted that authority over them. I'm the teacher, and I know everything. No, what do you know? Tell me what you know first because it's important. That's helpful.

That's also what drove you to that education. The system is limiting. You want to get to the entire child. That's everything. There are many well-intentioned teachers who can't because, maybe years ago, they would give up their own time to do it, but what were they giving up? The times have changed. People are starting to value their own time, but now, they have many things pulling them in different ways in schools, and there is no valid way to try to educate a group of kids.

You always talk about this as a one-size-fits-all thing. It's true. Part of me feels guilty talking about it. Every time I have a clarity call or I'm doing alignment days, I feel like I'm bashing education. I don't want to do that because I don't want to bash educators. I can't help it. I'm still beholden to it. My wife is a teacher. I always find myself hedging, qualifying, and saying, “It's not all bad, but it's hard.” We're not set up to serve the entire student. I always tell every bit of every child to the teachers. We need to serve every bit of every child.

We need to serve every bit of every child. 

It's a holistic thing. Everything has to be holistic. You touched on a great point there that I want to go over. It is the guilt to talk about the school system. We do have to talk about it because if we don't talk about it, it can never be changed. It cannot happen because it's not working for the students. I always bring it down to if you are a store owner and you put merchandise to sell, the customer comes and says, “I don't want any of this.” You keep putting the same merchandise, even though the customer keeps coming and saying, “I don't want this. I don't see the point of this.”

If you keep putting, you're going to lose. Your business has to shut down. The school system is doing the same thing. They're putting things in front of the kids. They have no relevance. They don't see the purpose. They're not connecting. They are distracted. They're saying to you, “I don't see the point of this. Can you help me see the point of this? We're missing it.”

The more current generations of students are less inhibited in their willingness to call it out. Several years ago, when I was teaching, students came in. Generally speaking, whatever we said went, and the parents were like, “Yeah, listen to the teacher.” For various reasons, students now are demanding things. I'm afraid for a lot of people in education. It looks like something more nefarious than it is. They think students are different. They're acting out. They're doing this. No, they're telling you what they need. They're telling you how to reach them, and you have to listen.

That's the problem. This show is about looking at the different perspectives. Look at the teachers', parents', and children's perspectives, as well as the administrators', which you were one of. This is why it's important to hear your voice. As an administrator, you used the word, “I was putting the fire out everywhere.” There's constant. You're running from one situation to another situation. Your own hands are full most of the days. How do you help a teacher struggling in the classroom? How did you do it?

I didn't. You did your best. For me, it was always about human connection and letting that teacher know they weren't alone, but they were alone. Think about the job of a teacher. In New Jersey, where I taught, there are 180 school days, eight periods a day in a high school, and you only get observed for two periods of the entire year if you're a tenured teacher. That is one-quarter of the day you are being supervised on your job.

That has its positives and negatives. If you can't be there for these young teachers, you can give them all the in-servicing you want. You can offer the support model things, put them in observations, and let them watch teachers who do a better job or are more experienced. We're all being pulled in many different ways in a public school.

Do you think the problem is it's understaffed? How many people could have done that? Is it possible for you to do all of what was expected?

I don't think everything is understaffed. That's reality. It's also a public entity. There's limited money. Here are my thoughts on the issue of education. The public education system in the United States started many years ago during the Industrial Revolution. The idea is we're going to get students ready to come out and work in a factory. That's why there are bells that move from class to class. We have to remember that there was only a certain group of people for whom those schools were. If you were a person of color, it wasn't for you. You have this idea of a school with students in desks.

You see old photos. There are desks and rows. They're still like that. The institution is antiquated. The willingness to force change is not as strong as the desire to keep things as they are. That desire to keep things as they are comes from other various interests, whether it's politicians or bureaucrats who need to justify their jobs or labor or teachers unions who want to protect their employees or members. In the middle of all that, there are more coming downs about what you need to do and what you should be doing standards, so make sure you're doing this. We're burning teachers out. We have to change.

The willingness to force change is not as strong as the desire to keep things as they are.

We have kids exiting who can add, subtract, or read. How are we preparing them for the real world?

It's almost like you have all these people, and when I'm talking about these people, these teachers and the people who are the boots on the ground, who are driven to make sure that kid leaves and knows how to read and do math and is going to be a productive member of society. We all believe in that. I'm not even saying it's not building administration or district administration. There are states and counties. There are many things that people dump on the schools, such as requirements and standards. It's this giant uphill battle.

I don't know the answer except for something like this. If every student could have personalized learning, that's beautiful, and it's rewarding. There are still many students who don't. There are few people that the school system is designed for. There are a few types demographically and stereotypically. They'll be fine, but what about everybody else?

Our learners are more diverse than ever before.

The overall makeup of our country is getting blacker and browner by the day, which is amazing because of the diversity. Don't forget it's a 100-year-old White institution that resists change. It's an issue. Everyone tries. There are many things pulling us in many different ways.

We have a problem to solve, but there's no union in solving it.

Everyone has a competing interest. The principal is worried about test scores. Standardized testing only tests one thing, and that is the poverty level. That's proven. In New Jersey, we had this conversation for years. The lower the socioeconomics, the lower the standardized test scores. That's all it was. There are people like principals, superintendents, and county superintendents who were pointing to that as their benchmark for how well that school.

When I say competing interests, that's what it is. You're telling teachers, and teachers are like, “I'm not teaching to a test.” The superintendent is saying, “We got to reach this benchmark of test scores that's coming down.” The principal told the teacher that, and the teacher said, “You're telling me to teach you the test.” The principal is saying, “No, but it's competing interests at every turn.”

If an administrator is watching this show, what would you say they could do in this? We have to admit it's a mess in chaos, which is okay. I always tell everyone that in order for a big system like this to change or for hundreds of years of system use, it's going to take a while to do that. While that's happening, we're doing something about it. That's the beautiful part about it. You, my other teachers, and I are doing something about it because we can't watch it and let it pass. Many people are failing.

That is the reason I left several years ago. I said, “How many people can I count when I retire that I failed?” Not intentionally, but I know I'm failing them because I can see it. I can't go to all 26 students at the same time, even several years ago. There was no COVID gap. None of that stuff existed. It was regular school time. What would you tell the administrator to do in this chaos that they're in? It's a tough job. They're putting fires out. How can they support the teacher and themselves?

That is a great and difficult question. When I say great, I mean a difficult one to answer.

Let me ask you this. What would've helped you when you were in that situation? If someone told you this, do you feel that could have made it different for me?

I had it for most of my career. It’s the support of the people above me and their willingness to let me take risks and try new things. I wanted to take care of the entire student. I had a lot of support in doing that. We can't look at this as a factory anymore. It's not a factory that hands cherries. Everything is the same. If a bad batch of cherries comes in, you don't use them. They have to change.

Here's what I would say in a nebulous way. When a teacher would come to me and they would say, “I would like to do this,” I would say, “If we were up to me, I'd have you blow the whole thing up and change it all. Let me support you in any way that I can do that.” I believe that it needed to be turned on its head.

If that shift you're talking about is going to be a slow shift, administrators need to support their teachers in taking care of young people at every level. They need to push the envelope about how to do that. They need to be able to say, “I want to try this.” They need to make sure that everyone feels like they belong there. You're fighting so much when you have a school.

Administrators need to support their teachers in taking care of young people at every level, and they need to push the envelope about how to do that right.

I worked in a school that was the exact demographic of the United States. Eighty percent White and 13% African American. The issue that we had, as far as diversity goes, is nobody could figure out how to make everybody feel like they belonged. That's such a huge part because you're fighting more than you need to.

This is why this question is hard. There are many outside factors, such as parents who think they know more than everyone else and active school board members who are activists who are getting on a school board to tear the whole thing down. I don't know if it's happening in Canada. That's part of the common discourse nationwide. It's trickling down. Do what you can to take care of the young people in front of you, and make sure your teachers are okay. I live with one, and she's okay, but the past couple of years have been tough.

Do what you can to take care of the young people in front of you and to make sure your teachers are okay.

I always say this in the show, and this is my repeated mantra. Many people are surrounding this child. Every child in that school system is a child that we have to protect. We have to remember that this child will make up stories according to how we all react, behave, and apply whatever systems or processes we have. The goal for all of us is to protect the child in any cause.

Even if we're not working together, we are working in all directions. You have that child experience a trauma or make a story that I don't belong here. I'm not part of this. I'm not good enough. I'm stupid, and all these things that kids can generate ideas about themselves. We have to be careful. I talk to many teachers on a daily basis. I hear that administrators try to micromanage. This word comes up all the time. Why would administrators do that? They already have so much to put out the fire. How can you micromanage? Is that a controlled thing for administrators?

In my experience, the more confident I got as a leader and my ability to lead, the less I felt any need to do that. People who micromanage are insecure leaders. They would doubt their own ability to do something. How are they going to trust someone else to do it? If you're the principal of an elementary school, who's breathing down your neck? That person is getting micromanaged, and they have people to answer. If you're a strong leader and have a certain amount of confidence in your ability to be a leader, you can handle that better with somebody breathing down your neck.

There are many compliance issues and constraints that it's become this big technocratic thing that we've lost sight of the humanity of it. At least, the administration has. Teachers are trying. There are less subpar teachers in every building. There are great teachers. People who are going into teaching aren't making much money, and they want to work with young people. We don't let them because we, as administrators, are worried about compliance issues. We micromanage.

The biggest complaint that teachers have is, “I don't have freedom. I constantly micromanagement in the classroom. When I need help, they don't come. When I don't need them, they're managing me.”

When they're micromanaging, they're worried about their job. They're not worried about the teacher's job. When the teacher needs them, it's not as important. It's all about people being pulled in different ways and pressures coming from different areas. Whether it's from the state, board, or superintendent, it's a mess.

You and I decided to leave the mess. We didn't stop because we didn't come out and say, “Let me point and think it back into that school system and say, “That's bad, but we all want change.” Our biggest mission is to change this. Our students receive what they're looking for. There's something that they're looking for that we're not giving to them. We have to change it. After you left, you were searching for a way that you can meaningfully serve your students. That's how we met now. You have your business as a holistic neuro-growth learning success coach. How has that changed your work, fulfillment, and satisfaction in life?

When you're in education, and you're a teacher administrator, no one is encouraging you to value your own time. I get into this with you, and it's all built around becoming the best you can be to serve the best you can. What I've realized is many of us go to serve young people. Nurses are the same way. They have this serving thing. The teachers will run themselves ragged for their students. They think they're doing the right thing by sacrificing their own things on their own. It’s the cycle of sacrifice.

The perspective I have now is I'm driven by the idea of autonomy and contentment. I journal every day. My two big things are autonomy and contentment. The first three things I write are energy, family, and service. Do I have the energy to serve my family and community? It's changed my life because it took that distance from it and perspective to go, “No, this is how we're supposed to live. I could still serve, but I have to be the best me.”

I knew that was true, Kohila. I would talk to teachers who wanted to take a day off. I would always be like, “Do it. Be with your family because the best you is best for our kids.” I wasn't living it, but now, I see it more, and I'm driven by autonomy, contentment, energy, family, and service. Everything I do is for that. Those are my personal pillars.

I was like that. Several years ago, I could stand and sleep business. I had over 100 students in my tutoring business. I thought I was the most successful person running my son around and doing all this stuff. At the end of the day, I could stand and sleep. That's how tired I was. I did not have anything left in my body or cells.

Service doesn't come at the cost of lack of self-care or loving yourself because only from a full cup can you serve more. It has to overflow. You should have a cup that's overflowing. You can keep serving. We forget that as teachers. We had nurses in another place where service was important, and we forgot about that.

In this business, you have a way of teaching the students. You were earlier saying you were part of the film. You used a couple of words that I love, like critical thinking. That was a place where creativity could come. When you step away from that school building, one of the things that happened to me, everyone, and you are your creativity comes back in power. You're serving from that full cup. You have these affirmations. You are living a life of fullness and abundance. I could do that. You are starting a podcast now. You were doing what you wanted to do. You want to serve in a different way. Did you feel that creativity coming back to you?

It's crept up on me. Now that we're talking about it, it's hitting me even more. Moving from teaching to administrator was a big shift. Before I became an administrator, I was involved in amateur filmmaking and making films. My two friends and I, who taught at a different school, used to run a nationwide film competition for students. It was valuable. We loved what it did. It allowed us to be creative. We would do that and make movies on the side. That was creative. I became an administrator, and all that went. I kept telling myself, well, “I'll have time to do this.” It became harder.

I step out of it. I was in a fog for a while. If you leave something, you have to grieve that. You do have to grieve leaving a career. I have a friend who I speak to often, who's about to retire. I worked with her for years. She never spoke to a therapist. She started in August because she knows she's retiring in June. She wants to be ready, and that's smart. It's grief.

Now that I'm out of that bubble, I can only liken it to when I first had a baby in that first couple of months. That's what it was like. Now, I feel who I am. The creativity is there. I have one of my students on coaching. I had to put together a ten-month-long writing plan to work. Week by week, what are we going to work on? I enjoyed researching it, doing everything, creating quizlets, and doing this. I'm like, “I'm creating, serving, and doing all this.” The longer I've been out, the more I've been reflecting on all of those students who were in my office and were riddled with trauma. That's what's driving me now.

I knew the kid had trauma. I could advocate for that child to a teacher and go, “You don't understand what this kid is going through. He didn't do his math homework. However, you don't know what he saw this morning.” What I'm becoming more and more in tune with is my proximity to the pain that I had for years. I knew it affected learning. I'd never thought about how. I could say, “The kid can't learn if his head and heart aren't okay.” Those are words.

How do you feel it in your every cell? What does that look like? How does that feel like that frustration?

It's frustrating. I took not a page from your book, but you have this unabashed goal of reaching many students. It's called a BHAG. It's an old business thing. That's what I kept thinking. I'm like, “How do I tell every kid they're okay?” Out of all of it, when I look back, I want to grab every student who's a young person and tell them it’s all going to be fine. We are all made up of our own trauma. That's okay. We have to learn how to live with it, move forward, and heal.

We're all made up of our own trauma. And that's okay. We have to learn how to live with it, move forward, and just heal.

I'm all about healing. You mentioned my podcast. What I'm trying to do is talk to people like you, mental health professionals, teachers, coaches, and anybody who works with young people, and I want to celebrate them because we all need to be celebrated. I want to talk about how they manage their own trauma when facing a child in front of them who's going through trauma. I want to offer some ideas to young people, parents, and anybody else working with young people. I want to offer some help or offer anything small to say, “Try this. This twelve-year-old can start healing now. You didn't start healing until later on. I didn't start healing until way later on. We're never going to be finished.

No, we're always progressing. Let me ask you this. Why are you connected to trauma? There must be something you have. Can we talk about that because you have this intense attachment?

I've always been open with the things I went through in my life as a child. I had a tumultuous childhood. I saw some things that a lot of people do not have. I'm not saying it's worse than anybody else's trauma, but there are things that I witnessed that I'll never be able to unsee or unexperience. I didn't realize the impact it had on me until I was an administrator. I would see these students and feel every bit of their pain. Now that I'm out, the next level of reflection is I felt every bit of that pain, but what did that do to me?

I had quite a bit of trauma as a child. When I first started getting help and talking to a therapist, it was several years ago. I remember talking. It was the first time I met this person. She said to me, “You know something. It's amazing that you're a functioning human being. I don't think she was trying to say, “You went through it.” She was trying to offer me some grace and go, “You went through some stuff, and you got through it. The hard part is over. Let's work on that.”

I had a bit of emotional trauma. I saw violence in my house and emotional abuse. I was the youngest of five. I have a single mother who did her best. I was struggling to get attention. I wouldn't trade any of it because I love who I am now. I consider myself a successful cycle breaker. I have a daughter who's five, and I parent intentionally because of what I've been through.

My goal is to teach her how she's supposed to be loved because that's everything. We all think, “It's hard to love somebody.” Loving somebody is easy. Letting someone love you is the hard part. That vulnerability is hard. I live every day with pure intention of being, “How do I make sure my child can make it through her life with the best foundation possible?” I'm intentional with all of that.

I had a lot of trauma. I was constantly compared to the rest of the world by my dad after drinking, which was fun. When a drunk dad compares you to the whole world, you have to sit and listen to him. It was the hardest thing ever. I lived with that guilt because I started comparing myself to the world. I called myself stupid every time I was good enough in other people's successful world.

If you're a parent reading this and you suffer too, what I'm hearing you speak is you can set an intention to change the next generation. It doesn't have to go on and carry that trauma to the next generation. You're keeping your daughter in a beautiful, loving space. You are setting that intention regularly to not let it come. I set intention because I can become like my dad and talk in his tone. I've heard it so much. When I get angry, I have to pull myself back and say, “We don't talk like that. That is your dad speaking. How are you going to talk to your son? How are you going to handle this situation? Don't act like your dad.” I have to constantly tell it myself, even to this day, because it's in it.

I became a father late in life, and I wasn't ready before. I'm glad I did. I get worried about the things I grew up hating about myself. I'm concerned about seeing it in my daughter. I'm neurotic. When I see her acting neurotic or being a certain way, I have to leave the room because I don't want her to see that. I don't want her to feel any of my own stuff.

In my house, if something spilled, it was the end of the world. There was screaming and yelling. I'm good at the pause and saying, “Let's fix it.” I am constantly saying, “It’s a mistake. It's water. We'll clean it up.” It's the pause that I've worked on. Journaling and meditation help with all of that, which are things that I'm trying to do in my life to help with that.

Everything is intentional. I don't know how young parents do it. A lot of people get married. They're young, and they have kids because that's the next thing to do, but there's no intent or thought on how you're going to do it. I'm happy that my wife and I did that. My wife came from a different type of family. I follow her lead. We have a good unit here. We created an acronym. Before Lucy was born, we sat down and said, “Can we think of four things that we want this child to be?” These are the four most important traits. We talked about it for an hour and came up with four things. It's boldness, adaptability, kindness, and empathy. Those are the four things we wanted.

I grew up with a mother who was afraid of everything. She instilled that fear into me. My wife is much more bold. I knew we could counter that. Empathy, we were both empathetic. Kind, we're both kind. It's almost like our vision statement. We called it BAKE, boldness, adaptability, kindness, and empathy. Everything we do, when there's a decision to be made, we’re like, “Are we serving those four traits we want in our child?” That's how intentional we were.

That's good advice for parents to set some intentions, values, and traits. It doesn't mean you're going to infuse to do it on her, but you are mindful when you're parenting her all the time.

I don't know. I have one child, and it's the only one I'm going to have. In my head, if I'm not intentionally making that child the best person she can be, especially as a young girl, the strongest she can be and the strongest will she can be, there are people out there who are going to do it intentionally the other way. They are going to try to intentionally misuse, mistreat, and teach her the wrong way. It's up to you and me. Do I want to make sure I'm responsible for what this child is, what the child becomes, and what she brings to the world, or am I going to leave that up to the world? No, we'll do it.

As a parent, if you're reading this and you have traumas, it's setting those intentions and making it aware that when your dad or mom speaks through you when you're parenting, you can feel it. My mom was quiet. She doesn't speak. She's always quiet because my dad dominated the whole scene. I also learned it from her. I'm not going to be that type of woman. I'm not going to let anyone treat me, or do things like that like my dad would do it to her.

From a young age, I was like, “No, this is not a good equation.” It traumatized people. We can feel it. That's the awareness and intention we have to set. This topic is deeply connected to you and me in many ways. We don't talk about it. Another part of our society is it's a shame to talk about these things, but we have to talk about it. It's important to talk about it.

Everyone's dealt with it on some level. Yours was an emotionally abusive father. Mine was an emotionally abusive household and an emotionally negligent mother. There are things that happen in your life that have an impact on you. Everyone went to school, but not everyone had the best teachers. I can think of all the teachers I've met over the years who have said some terrible things to students, who I know they have to live with for the rest of their lives.

It's important because men don't like to talk about these things. That's something I'd like to change. We have a big responsibility in this world. You have to look inward and figure out where you're coming from and through what lens you are taking in the world. That lens is created by everything that's happened to you. You can run from it and try to fill that void with alcohol. Your father was gambling. You can own it, run towards it, embrace it, and forgive it.

You have to look inward and figure out where you're coming from.

That's the other thing. It's about forgiveness. Can you forgive yourself for being this kid you didn't like when you were that age? I could talk about this forever because I worked hard to become the person I am now. I'm comfortable in my own skin. It's because of things like forgiveness and forgiving myself. I can forgive anybody else, but it's forgiving myself, learning, moving on, and understanding that, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. This is all you got. This is one time around.

My mentor will say, “Every setback in your life was a setup for you.”

You said that to me when you and I first spoke, and I had retired. When I retired, it was a tumultuous thing and traumatic. It was one of the largest traumas of my professional life. I was run out by a disgruntled group of people. They didn't want me there. It forced me to retire earlier. I put it in a questionnaire. You and I spoke. Now that I know you, I get why you did this. One of the first things you wanted to do was talk about that. What was that? What happened to you? You said, “No, you weren't thrown out of there. They gave you a gift.” I think about that often.

We don't recognize it. When we're grieving, we don't see it as a gift. It's only later we look at it, and we’re like, “Thank you. What an exit you gave me at a time I couldn't have left because I love my students.” When I left, there was a position that I was qualified to get and would've done such an amazing job. I packed the code of Math. I can teach anybody Math. I can get anyone to learn Math, even if they don't know anything about Math. I was qualified, but they wouldn't give me the position. Year after year, I would be like, “I could help all those kids pass.”

It's not even an easy class. It's a hard class. I was praying and hoping they would give it to me. They would never give it to me. I'm like, “What's wrong? Why don't you see me? Why don't you see my gift here? I got to take this to another environment. It's not possible here.” The question I always ask is, are you playing at your 90% potential or 10%? That was less than 10%. They didn't even see my potential. I had to make the change. I'm like, “If you're not going to give it to me, I'm going to find my 90% somewhere else.”

That's the gift I got from the last school I was at. There are a couple of things. Number one, I have breakfast with my daughter. I walk her to school every day. I value every second of when she drives me crazy. She takes forever to eat because she's five, and we're running late. I love it. Now that I'm out of the fog and I'm journaling, I know what I need in my life. It's autonomy. I don't want anybody else to have control over me, my own happiness, finances, or anything. I want to make my own mark and money, do my own thing, and have autonomy. That will make me content. I'm not looking for anything but autonomy and contentment.

Why did you name your company Fairmount Coaching?

Fairmount is the name of the neighborhood I live in here in Philadelphia.

I thought you wanted to create fair.

I didn't put that much thought into it. I was like, “I got to come up with a name.” I knew what colors I wanted. It’s blue and maroon. I didn't know the name. I came up with it because I liked the neighborhood. I have a webpage. It's Fairmount Media. That's where I'm going to put my podcast my podcast. The goal is to have it drive people to my website and see me coaching. They're all supposed to work together.

You have control over everything. That's what I always tell teachers and administrators. You have to give yourself permission to take that exit. If it's not working for you, it's not worth it for your pension and healthcare. Look at how happy you are now. With The vision for that exit, you can't have all those beautiful things happening.

You have to give yourself permission to take that exit if it's not working for you.

I'm thankful every day.

I see a book in your story.

That's down the line. I've thought about that. You tell me what you see.

I see sharing with men. My son is sixteen. It's hard for me to open him up and tell me stuff that's emotional because he'll be like, “I'm fine.” I have to ask four times before he says, “I'm not fine, but it's okay.” The next step is I'm okay. I'm not asking if you're okay or not. I want you to talk to me. What are you thinking? What's going on? It's in the genes. It is a program for them to open up. We have a good relationship. We're close together, but it's hard for him to express his feelings.

Genes is the way to put it. It's biological. Men are a certain way. A lot of it is about being strong and protective. We have to redefine what strong is.

Vulnerability is strong. It's the new strong. When you're vulnerable, you're strong.

When I'm in a room with somebody who's raging with testosterone, and I become my vulnerable self, I'm now stronger than that person because I've put that person in a position where they're uncomfortable. I'm not saying I'm trying to be dominant, but I've been in these situations. You think that's what strong is. You might be physically and emotionally strong, but your strength is all trying to suppress things. I'm not using my strength to do that. I'm using my strength to share that and build something.

What were you thinking? What would you write about?

When I got this podcast off the ground, I could find a yearly book on transcripts of a podcast and how it affected me. It could be both of those. It could be twelve guests, where I was in my own life at that point when I was talking to them and how it impacted me. It’s all about trauma and being vulnerable. One thing at a time. My wife is already on me for trying all these different things.

We can have visions. My husband would say, “She's crazy.” I have a list of what I want to do before. I'm gone from this world because why waste? Let me ask you a tip for parents who are reading and may have experienced trauma like you and myself. What should they always remember when they're parenting?

It's not about them. The hard lesson is to not take things personally. One of the books that a good friend of mine gave me was The Four Agreements. I don't know if you've ever read The Four Agreements. The second one is Take Nothing Personally. If you're a parent, and this is me thinking out loud, there are two ways you can consume that engagement with your child when the trauma comes out. You can consume it through your lens of how you dealt with your own trauma with your parents, or you can consume it through their lens. Put yourself in their shoes and help them understand that this is a moment of them feeling pain.

It has nothing to do with when you were that age, when you were five, or the time your father spanked you. That child is feeling something now. Don't take it personally. Put your hand out and offer some love and help. It's all about understanding that you have a choice. You can turn it into something about you or look at it as a moment in that child's life.

You want to end the cycle. I find that's the way my father and granddad grew. It's generational. It's almost like a curse that occurs. One person has to say in that generation of the family line, “This is not going to happen anymore. We're stopping this trauma. I'm not going to be an abusive dad or mom because of my dad or dad's dad.” We have to make a conscious decision to end that.

I didn't realize how hard it was. It wasn't that hard for me to break a cycle. I didn't want to have children because I didn't want that cycle to continue.

You can prevent yourself from enjoying.

It took me a long time to get to the point where I go, “This is what I want to do. Thank God.”

If you don't work through it, you'll never have children because you will always be afraid that I could be a bad dad or mom.

That was always my concern. This was before I had a child. I still struggle with it. I was devastated at the thought of watching my child do something that I hated about myself and act like me in a way that I was not proud of. It’s something that I’m proud of myself. Normally, it was being hard on myself and calling myself stupid or giving up easy on something. I was like, “I'm not going to do it.” You find the right people and person. You take the leap, and the work starts breaking the cycle.

How much of this work do you want to do with kids? Is your coaching going to involve that? You have a student who has trauma. You are helping them and their parents.

The reason I called my company Fairmount Coaching, was that I had even started this podcast, and before I reflected, I knew I eventually wanted to do teen life coaching. My thought was, “If I have Fairmont coaching, I could have different levels.” My wife is certified in elementary ed. If I could ever get her to leave and we get to a point where I can get her, it's a different type of coaching. I was trying to keep it very general so I could do that. That's my goal. You want to grab every kid and tell them, “I promise you you're not as bad and broken as you think you are. There's not an adult around you who has it all together as much as you think they do.”

You're not as broken as you think you are. There's not an adult around you who has it all together as much as you think they do.

The last one you said was big for me. I thought, “Why is it that everyone's life is okay except mine? I was always alone.” No one told me that. I couldn't because my dad compared me. That's a comparison statement. Everybody is okay except me.

My podcast is called Your Twelve-Year-Old Self. I got a meme once a couple of months ago. It was on my reels. It said, “Imagine standing at the bedroom door of your twelve-year-old self, and you're sitting in there. What would you say?” I got halfway through that thing. I knew where it was going. I was overcome with emotion. I was like, “I could see every bit of it. I could see the wood trim, the color of the carpet, my bed, and me sitting at it.” It hit me emotionally. I started thinking about it, and I went, “This is something I could do. I'm interviewing people.

The reason I bring it up is the thing we talked about. The last thing I ask people in this podcast is, what would you say to your twelve-year-old self? I follow it up with, what are some small, feasible, actionable things you could say or tips you could give to a parent, a teacher, a coach, or anybody who's working with young people that would help them learn and start healing now?

With my one interview, I finished editing. I was working on it for you, and I got on. She said, “It's important to be vulnerable and let them know that you did not have it all together when you were at that age. Show them your worst. Be honest about your worth and the things you did wrong.” You said it. That's a big deal.

Think about it. Those kids are coming into a school. This woman was a teacher. If their parent is not a great parent or parent is not something they aspire to be, they look at you and say, “This guy's got it all together, but I'll never be there.” She's a national board-certified teacher. She's been a teacher of the year. She's got her doctorate. She goes, “I got a one-six my first year in college because I didn't know what the hell I was doing.” I'm glad that hit you because that was her takeaway on my episode. I was like, “That's important.”

What was the first thing you said at your office? What's on the other side of the door?

I never even thought of it. What's interesting about that twelve-year-old self thing is I ran it to my friend the next day. He’s a friend of mine, and we are both vulnerable and talk to one another. I brought it up to him, and he said, “My therapist had me do that, and it was weird.” I'm like, “There are many things going.” This guy is a TV producer. I'm like, “Can you help me put this idea together?” There are people out there who would find it interesting. I wrote up my project plan for it. The idea was, “What are my goals for bringing traffic through my business and helping young people heal?” They're all intertwined.

That traumatized inner child is always inside of you. Even now, I have my inner child, or that twelve-year-old girl. One of the things I did when I came to Canada, because English was my second language, was to tell myself that I would mute myself in school so no one would realize that I couldn't speak English. That was my protection mechanism. I went unnoticed for many years. Nobody even noticed that I wasn't speaking right. I pretended everything was good.

When I go into a presentation and speak on stage, my inner child will come and say, “Remember, you can't speak English.” It speaks to me. I'm like, “What are we talking about? I am not twelve years old anymore. I'm not suffering with English. I have enough English to speak. I don't need your help.” We have that inner child because it's trained. It's a trauma. It's in the wiring. It's going to come up and talk to us when we have to realize it's talking to us. We have to keep talking to that in a child and tell it that was then you protected me. Now, I don't need that advice.

I work a day job at Temple University here in Philadelphia. I work with young people, helping them with their academics, but I was interviewing for another job. The job is called the Youth Employment Program. The idea is they serve 16 to 24-year-old young people from the city of Philadelphia who don't work. One of the guys is a sociologist. We talked about trauma. He said, “These young people bring trauma in every day.” I go, “Yeah, I figured.” He said to me, “What are you going to do? How are you going to handle it?”

I bring this up because this is another thing that had me leap towards this podcast. I said, “I would make sure I'd be the adult in the room.” What I meant was I want to model how I want this interaction to go. I'm going to stay calm. The guy was stuck on my use of words by the adult in the room. He kept coming back to it. I finally said to him, “What is it you're asking?” What he was asking me was, “How are you going to handle your own inner child and your own inner child's trauma when this child's trauma is palpable?” I thought it was such a profound, thoughtful thing to have a discussion about. I never thought about that. That's what I mean when I tell you all these little things happened that caused me to reflect. That was a big one.

It comes to you. The alignment starts happening. The dot starts connecting. We can talk about inner child stuff all day long because I got them talking to me. My inner girl talks to me all the time. I have to calm her down and say, “We're in a different era now. We're no longer there. We're moving on.”

Mine happens when I make a mistake or drop something. That kid comes out. He comes out to me and tells me that I'm stupid. I'm this. How dare you? You made a mess. You broke that. That cost too much money.

I want to tell you something. When you said broke, and you got in trouble, here's how my family was. One time, I was cleaning this bottle. I was 5 or 6 years old. I was cleaning and dropped the bottle on the ground. It was a hard, solid floor. The bottle broke into pieces. I was scared that I was going to get in trouble. I could hear someone coming towards me from the other side of the house.

In fear, I picked up all the bottles in my hand and started to hide. I forgot that it was going to cut me, and it did. They had to take me to hospital because all my fingers were bleeding. That's how fearful I was. How can someone forget it is going to cut? It's cutting me while I'm pretending that nothing happened. I was like, “Nothing happened. Nothing broke.” That's how traumas are. We don't know what's right and wrong at that age. We'll do stuff, even if it's harmful.

This is a great conversation. I loved having this conversation. Thank you for opening up about this trauma. We have to have a lot more of these conversations and make it normal and authentic. Share as much as possible. I carried my trauma for many years, knowing that I was the only one who was suffering from all that. There is a lot of shame. You want to hide it. Shame is another one.

The things that I think about are shame, fear, and mental health. When I look back, it's constantly shame. You're fighting that. I feel it.

On the show note, we're going to have your new podcast name. Send it to me so I can include it. Parents can watch it. They can join in on that conversation. As we wrap up, what do you want to leave to our audience? Our audiences are teachers, parents, and administrators. I want everyone to know my biggest goal is that we have to protect the child. I don't care who's going through what. Everyone is an adult. We need to set an intention that we have a child in our power. If they are looking up to us, what are we going to do? What do you want to do?

I would like to say this, and it's something I used to say to new teachers. I want you to assume that the 45 minutes that the child is with you is the only time that child feels safe. I don't mean it negatively. What I say to parents and everybody else is when you're engaging with a child, be mindful of the responsibility that everything you say and do to that child is going to matter. It's important to treat them in such a way that assumes that nobody else is talking to them in that way.

Everything you do or say is going to hit them hard. It's important that we understand our words and actions with regard to young people. They're watching, listening, mimicking, and emulating. It's important that we value the relationship in such a way that we think about what we're putting out to that child for them to hear and feel.

Thank you. I can't wait to hear your podcast.

I can't wait to have you on.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Important Links

• Mike Nicholson - LinkedIn

• Fairmount Coaching Practice

• The Four Agreements